9:00 AM: OHPV RAGS Ride (Portland)

[admin]

9:00 AM: OHPV RAGS Ride (Portland) 
http://www.ohpv.org/ride_details/rags.htm

[Jeff Wills]

CHANGED

Instead of gathering at Gateway, we're going to congregate at PIR and pre-run the route that's planned for the Left Coast Velomobile Gathering. We'll head south into downtown, along the river, across to the Oak Bottom/Springwater Trail, east almost to Gresham, north to Marine Drive, and back to PIR. We'll look for any choke points that will trip up the velomobiles. Gotta make 'em feel at home!

[Zyzzyx]

Ya checking out the Sat or Sun velo route?


Choke points...   that'd be narrow stuff (though if a regular trike can fit through, most velos should be able to). Tight turns. Tight wiggles. Steep driveway/sidewalk ramps. Tall speedbumps.   Well...  you'll know what you're lookin' for.

[Jeff Wills]

Ya checking out the Sat or Sun velo route?


Choke points...   that'd be narrow stuff (though if a regular trike can fit through, most velos should be able to). Tight turns. Tight wiggles. Steep driveway/sidewalk ramps. Tall speedbumps.   Well...  you'll know what you're lookin' for.

We'll be doing the long route- downtown, Oaks Bottom/Springwater Trail, almost to Gresham, return on Marine Drive. I want to be aware of the "gotchas".

Bill has already reminded me of one odd intersection: Bell Ave. and Johnson Creek in SE Portland: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Bell+Ave+%26+Johnson+Creek+portland+oregon&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.23349,54.931641&ie=UTF8&ll=45.45615,-122.592847&spn=0.001686,0.003353&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A
The Springwater Trail crosses this intersection at a diagonal. On a bike, you can cross one street in the crosswalk, do a 3-point turn on the sidewalk, then cross the other street. I can't see us doing this with a string of velos. We'll probably have to send someone into the intersection to stop traffic in both directions.

[mi7d1]

 No need to stop traffic. It's all very simple. I've crossed this interesting intersection many time in the WAW. All we do is exit the Springwater Coridore, go straight on Johnson Creek Blvd., Enter the parking lot of the Bell Station Market, loop around the market exiting on SE Bell Ave heading north, cross Johnson Creek Blvd and rejoin the trail.

 I use this syle of turning many places and I'm sure other velomobile riders have come to the same conclusion. IMO I don't like stopping traffic. Besides who's to say we're going to be grouped together?

[Jeff Wills]

No need to stop traffic. It's all very simple. I've crossed this interesting intersection many time in the WAW. All we do is exit the Springwater Coridore, go straight on Johnson Creek Blvd., Enter the parking lot of the Bell Station Market, loop around the market exiting on SE Bell Ave heading north, cross Johnson Creek Blvd and rejoin the trail.

 I use this syle of turning many places and I'm sure other velomobile riders have come to the same conclusion. IMO I don't like stopping traffic. Besides who's to say we're going to be grouped together?

See? This is the kind of thing I wouldn't think of! I'm so used to doing zero-radius turns on sidewalks (stop, stand while picking up bike, turn, sit down and ride away) that I don't even conceive of going around the building to finish that turn.

Since a lot of people will be coming in from out of town, I figure we'll try to keep people together. Whether this happens or not- I dunno... herding cats and all that.

If I can get the route from Tom, I'll have a better idea of what I've gotten myself into.

[Zyzzyx]

I'd sure like to join ya. Would be able to give it the test with a velo with probably the worst turning circle out there. But that would mean yet another weekend trip to Portland. Ouch. Especially with PIR just the week after.

[Herrsprocket]

No problem getting the route to you Jeff. I need a couple of days to get it all written down, step by step. These are the same routes that we have talked about at the fall/winter OHPV meetings and the Holiday party, so there aren't any major changes. One minor change was the addition of the couple of extra clicks on the route coming out of PIR to the Willamette Blvd via the trail running parallel and just south of PIR along the slew area. This was a feature that was brought out at the holiday party (thanks Kirke!) and was a great addition to the existing route. Much more scenic, far less "congested traffic", very nice! Everything else pretty much remained the same as far as both routes were concerned. With input from several folks who have good experience on all these sections of road/ paths, and a multitude of live "skyping" while Google Earthing/ mapping the routes with Craig, we're pretty confident that the routes are ok.

But as I said to you and Bill, I think it is a great idea to do a pre run thru of the routes. Who knows? There may be some construction anomaly or natural obstruction that may compromise the routes. There are a few areas that may make a person stop to ponder if the velos may have an issue in that spot, but I think that most of those trouble areas have been looked at. But that's not to say there can be "unforeseen" issues, and that is why it is great that you and Bill are willing to check it out a week before. Cool! With Bill running his velo thru any of the glitches and knowing how to circumvent them, his presence is quite appreciated. (case in point, the little detour around the store he proposed at the Johnson Creek intersection. A velonaut will seek the remedy they need to get around!)

The Saturday ride had a few more intriguing route issues that simply needed some careful re-examination of the original path. Again, a small amendment to the bridge/river crossing was discussed in an open forum at an early winter OHPV meeting and a very nice little alternative was pointed out and adopted. Lots of good help from the gang at the meeting as we crowded around Pat Frantz's computer screen, fingers pointing, tales of personal woe abounding. 

Even though Craig and I have discussed the route many times and he has descriptions and screen shots of "confusing" areas, we don't actually have a written version of the route done. So I'm working on a brief turn by turn screenplay for him to add to his collection of all things LCVMG! I'll forward one on to you so that you can do your "check run" in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for the effort you guys.

[mi7d1]

Jeff, I think it is great that you would consider joining us on our ride but speaking from experience bikes and velomobiles have two different ridding characteristics. I don't enjoy ridding with bikes, it is very stressful, but do it out of necessity. To me, your admittance to not thinking about going around the building just adds to my belief that velomobiles are more related to cars than bikes. I'd rather take the lane and ride with traffic than to ride in a bike lane with other bikes. Perhaps a good spot would be for you to run sweeper position. Having someone bringing up the rear who knows the area could be valuable.

[mi7d1]

I'd sure like to join ya. Would be able to give it the test with a velo with probably the worst turning circle out there. But that would mean yet another weekend trip to Portland. Ouch. Especially with PIR just the week after.

 Ian, That would be great if you were able to join Jeff on the ride. The HPC committee has asked for route suggestions from the members going as far back as the Christmas party,  I've had plenty of opinions to offer in regards to the route for many months now. Now that Jeff has elected himself and will alter one of his rides prior to the event and do a pre-ride I'm sure he'll find it satisfactory. One constant reply I've had when questioned about certain areas is: "The WAW or open wheeled velo can make that but I'm not sure about a Quest or other closed wheeled velo."  There is roughly a three meter turning circle difference between the WAW and a Quest. If a Quest or someone with experience from ridding a Quest were to make a pre-ride it would be most valuable. In other words you know how you turn. Even if you were to ride a bike, I'm sure with your experience you would know if there would be problems.

 I know the whole route but at this time am not sure if I'll be able to join Jeff on his ride. If I can finish working on my velo soon enough, I just might take a ride myself this weekend or in two weeks.

[Zyzzyx]

Jeff,

One option would be to pre-ride one of the rides next weekend. I'll be in town again for Estacada #3. Could easily enough schedule in a ride for Saturday, worked fine last weekend (if just a bit too far for me).

Tom mentioned that the Saturday ride (that's the shorter one?) needs to be checked out as well. Perhaps schedule that for next Saturday?



Bill,

Yeah, the Quest and turning isn't great. But, doesn't need too much room and I can flintstone a multi-point turn easy enough. And there have been just a couple times where I've gotten out, lifted the tail around, then got back in. That's not a deal-breaker to me. But like you, I'm far more likely just to ride in the car lane than the bike lane, especially when in the Quest.

[mi7d1]

Ian, Just remember that here in Portland, bikes are required to ride in the bike lane if one is available. We are allowed to ride outside the lane if it is unsafe to ride in the lane. Well, I consider doing 25mph in a bike lane as unsafe if the speed limit for the road is 30mph or less. In that case I take the lane as there is too little room for safety in the bike lane. A few times I've experienced a slight down hill and I'm doing 27mph with an car next to me. There is no room for errors in a four foot lane while ridding a 30" wide bike with a car on one side and the gutter on the other.

[Questing Craig]

My thanks to you all for giving the rides such a careful "look-see".  It will certainly make the actual VM rides during the LCVMG a smoother, more enjoyable time for all.

I await your findings...

Craig Johnsen

[Jeff Wills]

Jeff,

One option would be to pre-ride one of the rides next weekend. I'll be in town again for Estacada #3. Could easily enough schedule in a ride for Saturday, worked fine last weekend (if just a bit too far for me).

Tom mentioned that the Saturday ride (that's the shorter one?) needs to be checked out as well. Perhaps schedule that for next Saturday?

You can do that, but Diane and I are signed up for Ride Around Clark County so we're not available Saturday. I'm most interested in the "transitions"- entering & exiting the Cross-Peninsula Trail for instance. The end at Columbia Blvd. is a mess, but this map: http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?a=57969&c=35381 shows a way around it- up Portsmouth and right on Fessenden to get to the Trail.

FWIW: the Columbia Slough Trail (between PIR and the Columbia Slough) is gravel, but ridable. How are velos on unpaved surfaces?

[Jeff Wills]

Perhaps a good spot would be for you to run sweeper position. Having someone bringing up the rear who knows the area could be valuable.

I'll be your sweep any day...